01-14-2010 VC SP-MMINUTES OF THE SPECIAL SESSION
VILLAGE COUNCIL OF NORTH PALM BEACH, FLORIDA
• JANUARY 14, 2010
Present: David B. Norris, Mayor
William Manuel, Vice Mayor
Darryl Aubrey, Sc.D., President Pro Tem
Edward M. Eissey, Ph.D., Councilman
T.R. Hernacki, P.E., Councilman
Jimmy Knight, Village Manager
Len Rubin, Village Attorney
Christine Wilcott, Deputy Village Clerk
ROLL CALL
Mayor Norris called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. All members of Council were present. All
members of staff were present, except Village Clerk Melissa Teal, who was out of town.
REQUEST FOR ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION
Village Attorney Len Rubin requested that the Village Council meet in anattorney-client session
concerning pending litigation styled Marcel Agnolin v. Village of North Palm Beach Case No.
2005CA005722.
ANNOUNCEMENT OF CLOSED ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION
Mayor Norris announced that at this time the Village Council would recess for the purpose of
holding a closed Attorney-Client Session. Mayor Norris announced all persons who would be in
attendance at this Session. Mayor Norris estimated that the Attorney-Client Session would last
approximately thirty (30) minutes.
RECESS
Mayor Norris recessed the Special Session at 6:32 p.m.
SPECIAL SESSION RECONVENES
The Special Session reconvened at 7:09 p.m., following the adjournment of the attorney-client
session. All members of Council were present. All members of staff were present, except
Village Clerk Melissa Teal, who was out of town.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Council, the meeting adjourned at 7:09 p.m.
Christine Wilcott, Deputy Village Clerk
•
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Attorney/Client Session
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Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
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VILLAGE OF NORTH PALM BEACH
6 SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
ATTORNEY/CLIENT SESSION
7 (CLOSED DOOR MEETING)
RE: MARCEL AGNOLIN v. VILLAGE OF NORTH PALM BEACH
8 Thursday, January 14, 2010
6:33 p.m. - 7:07 p.m.
9 North Palm Beach Village Hall
Conference Room
10 501 U.S. Highway One
North Palm Beach, Florida
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PRESENT:
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
DAVID B. NORRIS, Mayor
WILLIAM MANUEL, Vice Mayor
DARRYL AUBREY, President Pro Tem
EDWARD M. EISSEY, Ph.D., Councilman
T.R. HERNACKI, P.E., Councilman
JIMMY KNIGHT, Village Manager
LEONARD RUBIN, ESQUIRE, Village Attorney
ALSO PRESENT: ANTHONY R. GONZALEZ, ESQUIRE
CARMAN, BEAUCHAMP & SANG
3335 N.W. Boca Raton Boulevard
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
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Attorney/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1 Attorney/Client Session of January 14, 2010 was
2 reported by PATTY McCOY, Shorthand Reporter, in the
3 above matter.
4 P R 0 C E E D I N G S
5 - - -
6 MR. RUBIN: I'll start off. Just to recap
7 why we're here, as the council is well aware, is to
8 discuss the number of times already Ms. Unruh made
9 a request for reimbursement of her attorney's fees
10 as they're related to the ongoing litigation of
11 Agnolin vs. the Village of North Palm Beach.
12 And we discussed it. And she has submitted
13 her documentation and as you also know she's been
14 dismissed or she actually settled with Mr. Agnolin,
l5 so she's no longer part of the lawsuit.
16 And the council requested to meet with Mr.
17 Gonzalez, who is representing the village in the
18 lawsuit, to discuss what's going on in that case.
19 At this session we really have to limit our
20 conversation to the ongoing litigation. We can't
21 get too far astray into Ms. Unruh's issue.
22 Although it's related to this, she's out of the
23 case. The questions and conversations should
24 really relate to the ongoing litigation.
25 MR. GONZALEZ: I'm happy to answer any
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questions anybody might have about the ongoing
2
litigation.
3
I should tell you that the one very vital
4
piece of information that I don't have the
5
paperwork before me is when we are set for trial
6
but we are set for trial now. I had sent a letter
7
to --
8
MR. RUBIN: Yes, you sent a letter.
9
VILLAGE MANAGER KNIGHT: It's either June or
10
July.
11
MR. RUBIN: June 29.
12
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes. Now, this is Judge -- I
13
was going to tell you what judge it is. I can
14
picture his face. And he runs an eight week
15
docket. It might be longer.
16
MR. RUBIN: Nine week.
17
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes. And his philosophy is
18
I'm going to get you tried somewhere on that
19
docket.
20
In fact the entire way that -- the reason it
21
hasn't been tried yet is because each time I've
22
noticed it and attempted to get it tried other
23
defendants were added.
24
Two times, in my opinion, defendants have
25
been added who shouldn't have even been in the
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case.
2
One was Patty Unruh because it was post
3
statute of limitations, which they didn't really
4
have a claim against her, and that's why with
5
regard to her they allege that she did things that
6
fits inside the statute of limitations, things that
7
occurred recently.
8
They've never been able to establish that.
9
They do probably believe that though. But he has
10
let her out of the case.
11
She has been deposed in the case by video,
12
and that video will be played and she was very
13
cooperative. Or she might be called live if she's
14
available.
15
There was another, Katherine Sharpe was
16
another employee of the village who was added and
17
dropped because of statute of limitations problems.
18
And the allegations against Ms. Sharp arose
19
strictly out of her agency, unlike Patty Unruh who
20
never was alleged -- even if the fact is that
21
something happened while she worked here that there
22
was bad blood between her and Mr. Agnolin, that
23
never came up in any of the specific allegations in
24
the case and therefore I never represented her.
25
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: When you mention the
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case, what was the date of that case?
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MR. GONZALEZ: It's all the same case.
3
What do you mean the date? When was it
4
originally filed?
5
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Right. In other words
6
she was added on from the original case, wasn't
7
she?
8
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes. And she was added on way
9
past any time for defamation. The statute of
10
limitations is two years.
11
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Right.
12
MR. RUBIN: The case number is a 2005.
13
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: The original case?
14
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, I can tell you that right
15
now if you want to know because I have it here.
16
This is the status from the first one?
17
You want to know when the original complaint
18
was filed?
19
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Yes.
20
MR. GONZALEZ: I have it being served on
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6-21-05 arising out of a cause of action that
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occurs on October 4, 2004 or before.
23
And I use that date because the documentation
24
that he cites to is that time but he even uses that
25
in his complaint as the date of the wrongdoing.
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It all comes to a head on October 4, 2004.
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He files his complaint on June 20, 2005. You have
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120 days after that to serve us and he served us on
4
June 21, 2005.
5
Now, that initial complaint does not have
6
anything to do with Patty Unruh. Patty Unruh was
7
added in another complaint that was filed long
8
after that.
9
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: 108?
10
MR. GONZALEZ: What's that?
11
I'll tell you. I think, I think it is.
12
I don't know if it's 107. The second amended
13
complaint was November 27 and it looks like it was
14
filed on -- I can't tell you when it was served on,
15
but I can tell you when it was served to the court.
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July 29, 2008. So.
17
I can tell you about my strategy for the
18
trial but I'd be happy to answer any questions you
19
have.
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COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Is this a bench trial
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or has he asked for a jury?
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MR. GONZALEZ: It's a jury trial.
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COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: He asked for a jury.
24
MR. GONZALEZ: And I can tell you that it has
25
been an expensive undertaking from our end trying
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to find the merit in the plaintiff's case.
2
Two of our former employees who were sued,
3
John Morsut and Marcy Verrastro, they make
4
excellent witnesses. For a time they were acting
5
as the country club -- I forget what the title is
6
for the --
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VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Director.
8
MR. GONZALEZ: Director, right.
9
They had kind of held that position together.
10
And Marcy at one point becomes the the main
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director.
12
But the point is there were problems
13
perceived regularly throughout the country club
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with Mr. Agnolin's performance.
15
Mr. Agnolin was let go because the membership
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dropped. And the allegations that he's made about
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people defaming him cannot be substantiated against
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Morsut, Verrastro and anybody else for that matter.
19
He's never been able to really identify
20
anybody.
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And the other thing that's I think the
22
glaring problem with his case is he has wound up
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trying to establish a wage loss claim because he
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cannot find like work as a tennis director in Palm
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Beach County.
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The simple fact is there aren't that many of
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those jobs around. This was a nice job that he
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had. You don't find tennis directors.
4
I mean he's giving tennis lessons and I've
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now heard that he's taken some type of position
6
with an establishment called Valencia Isles
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somewhere. So he is working somewhere now.
8
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: When was Catherine Sharp
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added and deleted, when was that?
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MR. GONZALEZ: Catherine Sharp added?
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VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Added and deleted or
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dropped I guess.
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MR. GONZALEZ: I believe she was added on the
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same day that Patty Unruh was. I can confirm that.
15
I mean I can tell you that.
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She was dropped almost immediately because
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with regard to Catherine Sharp I believe it was
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just defamation which is two years.
19
MR. RUBIN: She must have been in the first
20
amendment because she's not in the second amended.
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MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
22
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: So, in other words, it
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wasn't a question that after Patty then he added
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another one on.
25
What I'm trying to find out would he be
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adding -- is there anything to stop him from trying
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to add someone else on to this case now?
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MR. GONZALEZ: No. There's nothing.
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VICE MAYOR MANUEL: To hold up the case even
5
longer?
6
MR. GONZALEZ: No, that's right. He could do
7
that again. He could move to amend and it would
8
take it off the docket. And the judge is typically
9
required to let him do that.
10
Now, I don't think he's going to do that.
11
The reason is because if you think about this from
12
the plaintiff's perspective.
13
Mr. Agnolin is a very nice guy. He's a good
14
looking guy. He walks in. He has somewhat of a
15
salacious story to tell about some things that
16
happened at the village. Plaintiff's counsel
17
listens to it.
18
The original plaintiff's attorney on the file
19
that I originally was up against was a very good
20
attorney. From the same law firm. Very good
21
attorney, understood the facts, and she eventually
22
left the firm for reasons unrelated to the case and
23
then the file got transferred to another attorney.
24
But what was occurring during that time was
25
we were taking depositions and a lot of his
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essential facts weren't being established.
2
A perfect example would be he has alleged
3
that Marcy Verrastro made a phone call over to a
4
woman named Trish Faulkner at a local tennis
5
community and badmouthed him.
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Ms. Faulkner was deposed and said, I spoke to
7
Ms. Verrastro, she never mentioned his name.
8
Totally -- now that deposition has been
9
taken. He still clings to that allegation as if
10
Ms. Faulkner is lying for some reason.
11
But the point is as things like that continue
12
to happen his case continues to look weaker and
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weaker, and weaker and weaker.
14
And these people, you know, I mean I can tell
15
you at mediation, I forget the amount that we
16
offered but we offered an amount that was
17
reasonable based upon the economics. And it wasn't
18
$5,000. I want to say -- it might have been as
19
high as 50 grand. I can't remember.
20
His demand was three, four hundred thousand
21
dollars.
22
His plaintiff's attorney sat there with the
23
mediator and with us and said hey, you know, can
24
you guys help me get through to him, I'd like to
25
settle the case. You know, I don't want to try it.
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That attorney has since left the file. And
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now we have another.
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And I'll tell you this, there's 20, there's
4
20 witnesses in this case. The new attorneys that
5
noticed this for trial noticed it before the court
6
under the auspices of trying it in a day. And I
7
don't understand that.
8
If I play Patty Unruh's deposition it's going
9
to go five -and -a -half hours. That's a whole day
10
almost. Jury selection will be a day.
11
So it's going to be a long process. I think
12
that they -- I don't foresee it getting continued
13
again.
14
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: During Patty Unruh's
15
deposition, you were present, right?
16
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
17
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: All right. So do you
18
have the same copies and information on exhibits
19
that Patty Enruh's attorney asked for in that
20
deposition? Do you have a copy of them?
21
MR. GONZALEZ: I have a copy of everything
22
marked as an exhibit at that deposition and
23
everything that he had.
24
Most of what he had, I believe my office
25
copied and forwarded it to him so that he could
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keep his costs down in the case.
2
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Would we be able to get a
3
copy of that, of some of that information?
4
MR. GONZALEZ: I can bring it here and show
5
it to you if you want.
6
If I photocopied it for the village, it would
7
be an expensive undertaking because it's
8
voluminous.
9
I don't actually remember what the specific
10
exhibits were to her depo though. Is there
11
something in particular?
12
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: There was a memo to Mr.
13
Dave Tally that he referred to. I don't know if
14
you're familiar with that.
15
MR. GONZALEZ: That Mr. Agnolin referred to?
16
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Yes.
17
MR. GONZALEZ: I can look it up. I can send
18
it to you and fax it to you. That wouldn't be hard
19
to find at all.
20
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Let me see if I can
21
locate it for you.
22
MR. GONZALEZ: I have the exhibits that were
23
attached to his complaint, if that's one of the
24
things he was talking about.
25
There are several different exhibits in the
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f ile .
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COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Based on our -- my
3
peers that sit on that jury in the County of Palm
4
Beach, realistically what are our chances from your
5
esteemed experience as a guesstimate?
6
MR. GONZALEZ: Percentage chance of a defense
7
verdict and zero going to the plaintiff?
8
I think, you know attorneys cannot guarantee
9
a defense verdict,
10
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Guesstimate.
11
MR. GONZALEZ: Better than 50 percent, how's
12
that?
13
MR. RUBIN: That's pretty good from an
14
attorney.
15
VILLAGE MANAGER: It's always around 50
16
percent.
17
MR. GONZALEZ: I feel confident saying, I
18
don't understand, I honestly don't understand how
19
they're going to prove their case.
20
Now, they're going to get to the jury because
21
he's going to make the allegation that all these
22
things happened.
23
He's going to have himself. He's going to
24
have one sympathetic tennis member named Pam
25
Ireland. He's going to have his fiancee, who was
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his assistant that he may have been dating while he
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was married, I don't know.
3
But that's one of the problems with his case
4
is people were suspecting that, they were members
5
here.
6
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Didn't Pam Ireland call
7
her group up, the team two, 2-H up and move up to
8
Jupiter?
9
MR. GONZALEZ: Patty Unruh's group pulled
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out.
11
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: She went to Mirasol. But
12
Ireland's group pulled out and went up to the
13
Jupiter Club, didn't they?
14
MR. GONZALEZ: I don't remember if Pam
15
Ireland left -- if Pam Ireland left it was because
16
they got rid of Morsut.
17
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Yes.
18
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: What I was talking about,
19
Mr. Gonzalez, was page 79 of his deposition has a
20
list of the exhibits: Agreement with the village
21
with Agnolin, agreement with the village,
22
resignation of Unruh, second amended complaint,
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notice of filing answers of interrogation (sic) ,
24
memorandum of Verrastro and Morsut.
25
There is a memorandum, Tally to Smith
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reference Unruh's letter of 8-18 and there was a --
2
I think, they refer to it in here --
3
MR. GONZALEZ: Which exhibit letter was it
4
and I'll fax it to you tomorrow if you want to look
5
at it?
6
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Well.
7
MR. RUBIN: DX -9.
8
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: I want to see if there
9
was anything else?
10
MR. GONZALEZ: Is there something in
11
particular that council is interested in knowing?
12
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: I'm trying to piece
13
together, you know, he's claiming that she was part
14
of, you know, her time on the country club advisory
15
board, all right?
16
MR. GONZALEZ: Well, he's not claiming that.
17
He's not claiming --
18
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: He's not claiming that
19
but she's claiming that the result of her asking
20
the village for her legality (sic) bills because
21
she served on -- the legal fees, because she served
22
on a CCAB.
23
MR. GONZALEZ: Right.
24
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: All right? And I'm
25
trying -- I don't know what action she took with
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Mr. Tally who was at that time a country club
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director, who eventually came to the council -- I
3
wasn't on the council. Certain members here were
4
on this council and dealt with it.
5
I'm trying to find out what role she actually
6
did play.
7
MR. GONZALEZ: I can tell you the role that
8
she had and he did not like, that might illustrate
9
it for you. I can't reference exactly what she
10
said to the manager at the time.
11
But she did -- Ms. Unruh's relationship with
12
Mr. Agnolin is somewhat complicated in the sense
13
that she was instrumental in getting him hired
14
originally, and she was aligned with him.
15
And according to her, and this is the thrust
16
of her testimony if you've read her deposition, she
17
says Look, after he's there for a while and members
18
come in and complain about things that he's doing
19
on the courts: The court is not being ready, the
20
court is not being paved, I felt a little bit
21
responsible because he was my hire essentially, he
22
was my recommendation.
23
So I started to look into some of the things
24
that were wrong. And she believed that he was
25
collecting money inappropriately through one of his
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assistants.
2
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Right.
3
MR. GONZALEZ: She did report that to anyone
4
that would listen because she was on the advisory
5
board, because she was a concerned citizen.
6
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: But did she do it in the
7
capacity of the advisory board?
8
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
9
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: As a member of the
10
advisory board? Or did she do it in the capacity
11
of being a member at the tennis facility?
12
MR. GONZALEZ: I don't remember what she did
13
it in terms of that letter, and I cannot as I sit
14
here add up the dates she was on the advisory board
15
to figure out when she made the complaint but it
16
all kind of fits together.
17
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: October 21st of 2003 is
18
when she submitted her resignation.
19
MR. GONZALEZ: Correct, which was --
20
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: This goes back into the
21
August - September area of 103?
22
MR. GONZALEZ: Sure. But understand, she
23
leaves, a full year passes, then he is effectively
24
terminated by the -- I don't know if he's even
25
terminated. And he quits. But he is effectively
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not asked to come back, let's put it that way.
2
And that's a full year later. And then
3
that's after Marsut and Verrastro are looking at
4
his performance and saying it's not --
5
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Perhaps where I'm going
6
with this, would your attorney, your law firm, had
7
her name been mentioned in 104 or 105 prior to the
8
two year period of time, would you have been
9
obligated to defend her?
10
MR. GONZALEZ: It would depend on the nature
11
of the specific allegations contained in the
12
complaint. And the reason I answer that with a
13
hedge is this, it depends on how a plaintiff pleads
14
it. My whole business depends on what you allege
15
in your complaint.
16
So if he alleged something in his complaint
17
about her saying something about him, and for some
18
reason it put her at odds with the village, and
19
didn't, by the way, allege that she was an agent or
20
affiliated with the village, then I can't represent
21
her because I have a conflict of interest between
22
the village and her.
23
So it depends on what he would have alleged.
24
But I think the bear, basic way to answer the
25
question is, if a plaintiff makes an allegation
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against any village council member, any village
2
employee, any agent of the village and alleges that
3
they are that, then I would defend them.
4
Even post statute of limitations I would
5
defend them raising the statute of limitations
6
argument.
7
Understand that's not Ms. Unruh's role. Ms.
8
Unruh isn't alleged to have that agency
9
relationship with -- I mean even though we know
10
that she did and maybe that's where the bad blood
11
comes from between these two people, it just wasn't
12
alleged that way. And it wasn't alleged that way
13
because of bad lawyering, that's why.
14
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Was she ever deposed?
15
MR. GONZALEZ: Ms. Unruh?
16
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Yes.
17
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes, that's what you're
18
holding there with the exhibit.
19
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Hers?
20
MR. RUBIN: That might be an excerpt from
21
Agnolin's.
22
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: This is Agnolin's
23
deposition.
24
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
25
MR. GONZALEZ: Okay, so Exhibit DX -9 is from
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AgnolinIs.
2
MR. RUBIN: Yes, it's a memo.
3
MR. GONZALEZ: Ms. Unruh, like I said, she
4
was deposed. Ms. Unruh was deposed and was deposed
5
by videotape because I had a feeling that she --
6
the claims against her were so weak that I had a
7
feeling she would not be in this thing with me
8
toward the end and I wanted to make sure I at least
9
got her testimony.
10
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Could we get a copy of
11
that?
12
MR. GONZALEZ: I can make a copy of the video
13
if you want to watch it. It would be easier than
14
reading it. Or I can give you a copy to read.
15
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: I thought we had a PDF
16
of the video.
17
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: I did too.
18
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: We had both of them.
19
VILLAGE MANAGER KNIGHT: Yes, I think you had
20
hers.
21
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: We had both of them.
22
MR. GONZALEZ: It's a lengthy video.
23
VILLAGE MANAGER KNIGHT: Not the video. We
24
don't want the video.
25
MR. GONZALEZ: It's a lengthy transcript too.
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Attornev/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: I don't believe we had --
2
MR. RUBIN: We just have Agnolin's.
3
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: We just have Agnolin's
4
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: I know I got two depos.
5
MR. RUBIN: I think it was two parts of this.
6
I don't think it was that.
7
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Two parts, right, they
8
took a break. It was a long deposition.
9
MR. GONZALEZ: I mean I think Ms. Unruh had a
10
very good chance of getting out of this case
11
successfully. But I kind of guessed the plaintiff
12
would eventually drop her.
13
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: There was also a
14
petition, supposedly a petition that was issued at
15
some period of time given to the country club
16
advisory board, Mr. Agnolin claims was, but
17
evidently through cross examination couldn't prove
18
it was directed by Patty Enruh?
19
MR. GONZALEZ: I cannot think of an exhibit
20
that is a petition.
21
Through the village clerk I have received
22
documentation of member surveys of what members
23
thought of Mr. Agnolin.
24
And I do have and it was attached to Ms.
25
Unruh's deposition a good amount of documentation
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Attorney/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
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regarding the work she had done.
2
But there was no head hunting done by her to
3
eliminate him except to expose what she perceived
4
to be a problem.
5
And if you read her deposition, which I'd be
6
happy to provide to you, she takes everything that
7
she finds, she simply says to whoever will listen
8
at the country club advisory board meetings, here
9
it is, you guys tell me what you think.
10
There's no evidence of any defamation against
11
her at all.
12
PRESIDENT PRO -TEM AUBREY: Is Agnolin clever
13
enough to have structured his allegations in such a
14
way to have effectively denied her counsel? Is he
15
smart enough to have done that?
16
MR. GONZALEZ: No. Well, let's put it this
17
way, he wouldn't want to do that. In other words,
18
that's why I say this whole thing, it's from bad
19
lawyering.
20
Any plaintiff's attorney that has a claim
21
like his wants that agency relationship. They want
22
to get into the pockets of the village. He hasn't.
23
been able to frame it that way.
24
So it's not -- it complicates the case
25
unnecessarily the way it was pled because it was
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Attorney/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
never pled appropriately. And remember it was only
2
pled this way to delay the trial.
3
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: I've got to sort of
4
object to that statement.
5
I was personally involved in my personal case
6
in which Bob Critton, Esquire named me and did
7
everything he could to keep my professional
8
engineering license out of the case, hence
9'
divorcing me from my professional liability
10
insurance policy because he was going for his --
11
his client wanted her ounce of pain, severe pain
12
out of me, and he was doing everything to make sure
13
that I could not bring in my liability policy.
14
So, you know, I could see where contrary to
15
what you said --
16
MR. GONZALEZ: Well, you could be right that
17
if somebody was out there for some reason that just
18
wanted to attack somebody they could do that.
19
I've not seen anything from Mr. Agnolin that
20
suggests to me that was ever his motivation.
21
One, because he's already settled with her.
22
For no money, by the way. But he did settle with
23
her. And he's let her out of the case entirely
24
based purely on the counsel's advice, no doubt,
25
saying hey, listen let's not have her in this.
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Attornev/Client Session
Marcel ALnolin vs Village of NPB
1
And I believe -- and there is no settlement
2
agreement that I've seen that it was based purely
3
on her writing a letter of recommendation for him
4
and setting him up with a head hunter.
5
But everything in the case that they've done
6
has seemed to be more motivated toward money, which
7
everybody, most everybody -- some things get
8
personal and then you wind up having, you know,
9
wars.
10
But this one, you know, this case has not
11
really been a war even though it's big. It's just
12
there's so many -- there's always a lot of fact
13
witnesses in defamation cases, and that's why it's
14
been big and expensive.
15
And Ms. Unruh has probably got bills of her
16
own. The rate she negotiated with her attorney is
17
probably higher than what I get paid.
18
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: How much do you get paid?
19
MR. GONZALEZ: I don't know what my rate is
20
on this thing, but I can tell you that typically --
21
my rates differ for different clients, but I've got
22
clients that pay me 125 an hour and that's not
23
breaking the bank, if you know much about attorney
24
fees.
25
I don't know, other attorneys they charge
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Attornev/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
$300 an hour and they do the same thing. So, you
2
know, my -- now, I've got other clients that pay
3
more than that, which is fine.
4
But the point is that everything that's been
5
done in the case has been done correctly. It
6
just -- it is expensive. It has been expensive but
7
not so much a war.
8
I'm sure it's personal for Mr. Agnolin's side
9
in his defamation case. But if somebody, if the
10
insurance company had paid him $300,000 at
11
mediation he would have released Ms. Unruh and she
12
would have gone her on her merry way.
13
VILLAGE MANAGER KNIGHT: Mayor, if I may, I
14
had a conversation with Mr. Gonzalez and one of the
15
things -- because I know before you this evening is
16
the renewed request to compensate or cover Mrs.
17
Enruh's legal fees -- I asked Mr. Gonzalez as our
18
outside counsel his opinion as to if you gentlemen
19
take a position either to deny and/or move forward
20
and pay her, would that have any influence on his
21
case in chief.
22
And I'd ask if he could share that with you
23
because that's really, I think, what we need to
24
come to at the end of the day is whether we proceed
25
tonight or we table until this case is resolved.
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Attorney/Client Session
Marcel A2nolin vs Village of NPB
1
So maybe Anthony can help us with that.
2
MR. GONZALEZ: Okay, very briefly on that
3
issue, the insurance company obviously denies the
4
claim because the claim is not plead -- there's no
5
agency pled. It's just not pled that way, that's
6
why that was denied.
7
Now, does it arise out of the facts from the
8
case, does the village feel compelled that this
9
comes from her relationship with the village?
10
I can tell you that Mr. Agnolin seems to
11
believe that long after she left the village she
12
was still out there defaming him some way. I've
13
seen no evidence of that at all.
14
I can also tell you that the fact that the
15
village might pick up her defense could hurt the
16
case if a bad decision is let in by the judge or
17
somehow they try to show a bias on her part.
18
It really shouldn't come into the court, into
19
the trial but it could because attorneys and judges
20
make bad decisions all the time.
21
If I had a preference, I would advise the
22
village to not do that or if you're going to do it,
23
do it after the trial is over. Defer the issue
24
until after I've completed the case. Then there's
25
no danger of anyone making a bad decision because
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Attornev/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
it didn't happen.
2
MAYOR NORRIS: Any other questions for him?
3
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Actually I do.
4
What I'd like to get, so that -- we can get
5
this, I'd like to get a copy of DX -1 through DX -13,
6
page 79 and page 80.
7
MR. GONZALEZ: DX -1 through DX -13, okay
8
And that's of Mr. Agnolin's deposition.
9
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Right, that's on page 79
10
and 80 of his deposition. And also the deposition
11
of Patty Unruh.
12
MR. GONZALEZ: You want the mini of that, you
13
know, the four sheets to a page?
14
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Sure.
15
PRESIDENT PRO -TEM AUBREY: PDF file.
16
MR. GONZALEZ: I don't know if I have it. I
17
don't know if I have the capacity to e-mail it to
18
you.
19
MR. RUBIN: Yes, that takes up a lot of
20
space.
21
MR. GONZALEZ: How about this, deposition of
22
Ms. Agnolin.
23
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: No, Ms. Unruh.
24
MR. GONZALEZ: How would you like me to
25
provide that? I mean, you can send it to ....
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Attornev/Client Session
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VILLAGE MANAGER KNIGHT: Send it to Len.
2
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Send it to our attorney
3
and then he can get it out to us.
4
MR. GONZALEZ: Okay, I'll send those things
5
along.
6
MAYOR NORRIS: He can make 10, 12 copies.
7
VILLAGE MANAGER KNIGHT: Bill us at $125 an
8
hour.
9
MR. RUBIN: I'm hearing things.
10
MR. GONZALEZ: Does anyone have any other
11
questions about this? I'm going to, it probably
12
goes without saying, but don't discuss the case
13
with anybody.
14
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Where will the case be
15
held at?
16
MR. GONZALEZ: The trial will be in the Palm
17
Beach County courthouse.
18
VICE MAYOR MANUEL: Could you notify us
19
through mail to the manager when that case is,
20
advanced notice, so maybe if some of us would like
21
to attend, we can.
22
MR. GONZALEZ: When it's actually set I will
23
do that because there will be some witnesses that
24
have to be called out. And I coordinate them. But
25
Ms. Verrastro and Mr. Morsut no longer work for the
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Attorney/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
village or are associated with the village, so I
2
won't need that.
3
But I may need some documentation from the
4
clerk at the last minute.
5
MR. RUBIN: Calendar call is not until June
6
18.
7
MAYOR NORRIS: Do you have a question, Mr.
8
Hernacki?
9
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Yes. And I wasn't
10
going to bring this up because I think it might be
11
in the gray area according to Mr. Rubin, but you
12
brought this up, Mr. Gonzalez, is you made the
13
decision that she is not covered by the village
14
insurance policy.
15
And my only question is, is that construed
16
sort of as a conflict that you're paid to represent
17
the village but now you're also doing an
18
interpretation against her insurance policy? Or am
19
I in a gray area?
20
MR. GONZALEZ: Do you want me to answer this?
21
MR. RUBIN: You can answer. It's not really
22
an insurance policy but you can answer it.
23
MR. GONZALEZ: All right, typically -- it's
24
not even typically. The fact of the matter is when
25
you have insurance, the attorney for the insurance
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Attornev/Client Session
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1
company has a responsibility to both entities, I've
2
got a responsibility to Mr. Morsut, to Ms.
3
Verrastro, to the village, and to the insurance
4
company.
5
And the fact of the matter is it wasn't a
6
situation where hey, here's a possible insured, Ms.
7
Unruh, that you might have to represent, Mr.
8
Gonzalez. That never comes up because of the way
9
it's pled.
10
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Okay.
11
MR. GONZALEZ: See what I'm saying? It just
12
never comes up.
13
MR. RUBIN: Right. Because they're bound by
14
its insurance pool and they're bound by seven
15
sixty-eight twenty-eight and that's where the
16
village assumes liability for its agents.
17
And he just never pled the necessary agency
18
relationship to then trigger the obligation to
19
defend under that, under the pool.
20
MR. GONZALEZ: Right. I'm always happy to
21
answer any questions anybody has. It can get
22
complicated.
23
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Can I ask one?
24
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
25
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Len, you may have to
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Attornev/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
referee this question.
2
MR. RUBIN: Yeah, I don't know.
3
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Evidently I have more
4
experience than I want in this topic.
5
MR. RUBIN: Apparently.
6
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: Because did anyone ever
7
say to like the plaintiff's attorney to say Hey,
8
you're missing a connectivity here?
9
You know, like you said, after money.
10
Without the connectivity, they're sort of saying no
11
money. It's just a personal asset thing.
12
And sometimes people -- you know, I know my
13
personal attorney on my case turned around and
14
called the plaintiff's attorney saying Hey, make
15
this connectivity with his engineering judgment and
16
the attorney said basically, That's the reason I've
17
left it out because I know he has to pay the bill
18
himself.
19
MR. GONZALEZ: I understand.
20
In this case Ms. Unruh's counsel was free to
21
do that. I can tell you this, that conversation
22
was had and the reason it wasn't done is because of
23
the statute of limitations.
24
MR. RUBIN: Right, because even if he pled
25
it, although then Mr. Gonzalez would have defended
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Attorney/Client Session
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
1
it, he had a good defense under the statute of
2
limitations that would have really kicked it out
3
anyway.
4
MR. GONZALEZ: Then I could have got costs
5
from them.
6
MR. RUBIN: And then he could get costs and
7
get his fees for a frivolous filing,
8
COUNCILMAN HERNACKI: You've answered. Thank
9
you.
10
MR. GONZALEZ: Sure. That's fine.
11
MAYOR NORRIS: All set?
12
MR. RUBIN: You guys are set.
13
MAYOR NORRIS: Okay, thanks.
14
MR. GONZALEZ: Pleasure seeing you -all.
15
16
(Thereupon, at 7:07 p.m. the attorney/client
17
session was concluded.)
18
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23
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CERTI FI CATE
THE STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH )
Marcel Agnolin vs Village of NPB
I, Patty McCoy, Shorthand Reporter, certify that I
was authorized to and did stenographically report the
foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true
record of my stenographic notes.
Dated this 17th day of January, 2010.
Patty McCoy, ShortMh&fid `reporter
Preferred Real -Time Reporting, Inc.
Page: 34